pmcmurry
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colors ... hard to read
More contrast please.
On the main web site ... blue on black is very, very hard to read. Suggest light background and dark text.
On the forum, grey on black even harder to read. Suggest light background and dark text.
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5/8/2006, 8:25 pm
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ericrrrm
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Re: colors ... hard to read
I'll see what I can do. The blue links are already brighter than the default, but I guess it's not enough.
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5/9/2006, 2:24 am
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ericrrrm
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Re: colors ... hard to read
Oh, poo. I'm not even sure if I'm asking this right ... does anyone know if Internet Explorer supports the :link pseudo-class in css 2? I seem to be able to brighten/lighten the links on the black background in Opera and Firefox, but they seem to remain their obscure dark selves in IE.
Last edited by ericrrrm, 5/9/2006, 3:13 am
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5/9/2006, 3:12 am
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pmcmurry
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Re: colors ... hard to read
The only time I use IE is for testing. Otherwise I exclusively use FireFox. I've never heard of that link: tag. The problem isn't the brightness of the blue -- the brightest you can go is #0000ff -- it is the darkness of the background.
Check out the app at http://www.nils.org.au/ais/web/resources/contrast_analyser/index.html . I use it all the time when I am doing web stuff.
For instance #0000ff on #000000 has about 25% of the recommended contrast. I would either change the template you are using for the board, or go to light background dark foreground. (Grey on grey like where I am typing this message is also hard to read ... :-)
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5/9/2006, 9:47 pm
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ericrrrm
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Re: colors ... hard to read
Preston-
I was a bit doubtful about the forum scheme (which I picked from a list), myself. Customizing it (rather than just picking a different one from the list) is going to take some experimentation on my part, so I'll look at it over the weekend.
Unvisited links are currently #6666ff when on black. I think all unvisted links were #3333ff when you originally pointed out the difficulty.
That is a neat app--thanks! Right now it gives the objectionable links a contrast of 4.92, just short of the 5 recommended. If I go to #9999ff, they'll be 8.48. The question then will be whether that's still blue enough for people to recognize them as links. I'll try it tonight.
If readability remains a problem, then I'll have to consider going to dark text on a light background, as you suggest. I'm a bit reluctant to do that if I can find a way around it, though. I mean, I realize a white text-box with a black border isn't much of a "creative vision," but it's all the creative vision I'm likely to have.
Testing and Windows Update are all I use IE for, too. Since you use Firefox, let me ask you this--are all my pages too wide for your screen? They are for me when I test with Firefox--it's as if the right margin or padding values are being interpreted backwards. I'm hoping it's local to me, because I don't know how I'd fix it.
Thanks for your help and suggestions (and I apologize to anyone who's nodded off by this point).
-Eric
Last edited by ericrrrm, 5/11/2006, 1:36 am
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5/10/2006, 2:14 pm
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ericrrrm
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Re: colors ... hard to read
OK-- everything (except the forum, of course) should now pass both the luminosity and the brightness/difference test. (That's a very neat app!) That's not quite the same as human beings finding it more readable, though. Let me know if it isn't.
Last edited by ericrrrm, 5/11/2006, 1:50 am
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5/11/2006, 1:41 am
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pmcmurry
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Re: colors ... hard to read
White on dark grey is better. It's your board, so you can do what you want :-) but dark backgrounds are very hard to read. As is the use of small text. I guess it depends on what your purpose is: To have a "creative vision" or to communicate. As this is not an art site, I suggest the purpose is to communicate. :-)
As to width, it seems to me that the common fashion these days is to center the content area on the page, with some "padding" space on either side of the content area. That keeps the text from spreading all the way across the monitor. Back when the web started, and everyone had 14" monitors and 800x600 (or even 640x480) resolution, going all the way across was not such a big deal. Now people have monitors that are 19"+ and resolutions of 1280x1024 or larger, the text gets *very* spread out. :-)
The key thing with a web site is not to design to make you -- or as I constantly emphasize at work, your managers -- happy, but to make your visitors happy. Their experience should be pain-free at worst, and pleasant at best. :-)
(p.s. - I know my B-17 pages blow ... :-) )
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5/12/2006, 1:43 am
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ericrrrm
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Re: colors ... hard to read
Preston-
I'm sorry, I can't tell whether your comments refer to the forum, the rest of the site, or both.
Since you mention small text being stretched across the screen, I'm guessing you are referring to the forum. As you know, since I see you have a Runboard forum on the Phoenix CSC site, the forum format is controlled not by a standard text css, but by a proprietary form. During the work week, I don't have time to puzzle out what each entry on this form controls. It is my project for this weekend.
I do want my visitors to be happy with the 314 Squadron site. I was very glad to learn about standards for contrast and brightness, thanks. I guess I had some inkling of this issue anyway, because all of the text that I'd expect anyone to read in a sustained way, like AAR narratives, or summary tables, have always been black on white (except for the forum, of course). What's left on a black background are headers and the brief main page announcements (very light grey) and links. I don't think these are read in the same way an AAR would be, and they (now) all meet the level 2 standards for brightness and contrast.
My hope, of course, is that communicating and having a site that reflects my own vision aren't mutually exclusive. Communication, obviously, has to be the first priority. I think that would be true even if it were an art site  If that's still not happening, please let me know. For now (except for the forum), I'm confused as to where the shortcomings lie.
Thanks!
-Eric
PS My question about Firefox and page width referred to the main page. When I test it with Firefox, I need to scroll right to see the whole thing. If that's not happening to you, great! But if it is, I'd appreciate any suggestions, because I don't know how to fix something that looks so out of whack in just Firefox.
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5/12/2006, 2:16 pm
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pmcmurry
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Re: colors ... hard to read
I do know that IE does not follow standards. (Stop the presses! :-) And so IE does things differently with CSS than other browsers such as FireFox and Safari (the Mac browser). Here is a note from one of my css files:
/*** Internet Explorer Classes ***********************************************
**
** IE has issues with the following properties:
** 1) border-spacing
** 2) background-color
** 3) width expressed in pixels when a class is applied to a <td>
** 4) hover on everything besides an anchor
**
** Therefore, we need alternate styles for IE. (Piece of crap.)
*/
Rather than creating a new class just for IE (which I did in that case), you could create a property just for IE within a class. Like so:
.Header {
width: 727px;
/* Override for IE */
width: expression('717px');
}
I use that one as an example, because IE's (mis)understanding of width is the worst of its CSS offenses.
I can completely relate to the lack of time: I started a re-design project for my (440+ page) web site, which I have had to suspend due to working every day this month, including weekends. :-) Compare this (http://www.prestonm.com/military/grenada/) to this (http://www.prestonm.com/military/milindx.shtml) and you will see what I've started to do. Hopefully it will be obvious which is old and which is improved. :-)
I also use AkBBS for a couple of boards (http://com5.runboard.com/bphoenixcsc) so I know you can do extensive modification if you have the time to do iit. :-)
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5/12/2006, 11:01 pm
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