frev
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Re-organisation from 8 Coys to 4
Help!
My search skills are letting me down - I know it's got to be out there somewhere (staring me in the face no doubt) - but I can't find a definite answer.
The question is - when the old system of 8 Coys to a battalion was cut back to 4 (Jan 1915) - was there a consistent method applied through all battalions?
I know the 7th Bn took the old A&B to form the new A; C&D = B; E&F = C; G&H = D; - and I assumed this system must be universal.
Then I remembered how dangerous assumption can be! So I went looking for some official documentation - and came up zilch.
Can someone please set me straight.
Thanks, Frev
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11/28/2005, 5:59 pm
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ghosken
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Re: Re-organisation from 8 Coys to 4
Hi Frev, Bean Volume I says that the change took place on Jan 1st, 1915. I think you would be safe in assuming the system you described would have been the same in each battalion of the 1st Division.
Graeme
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11/28/2005, 10:33 pm
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frev
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Re: Re-organisation from 8 Coys to 4
Hi Graeme
Thanks for the reply. I checked Bean too - wouldn't you have thought that he would have actually recorded how the change occurred - I'd really like to see it in black & white!
Oh well.
Cheers, Frev.
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11/29/2005, 1:10 pm
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ghosken
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Re: Re-organisation from 8 Coys to 4
I always tell my students, "It doesn't matter what the question is, the answer will be somewhere in Bean!" This may be the exception to the rule.
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11/29/2005, 9:36 pm
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dan13
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Re: Re-organisation from 8 Coys to 4
Frev,
There is very little info on the specific details of the reorg of the battalions, a subject I've been interested in.
In accordance with the 1914 Manual of Infantry Training issued by the War Office on August 10, 1914, certain company reorganization was effected. As the amended manuals were not available prior to embarkation, the change over was deferred until Egypt was reached and text-books were procured. The 8-Company System under which the Battalion was originally raised was then superseded by the 4-Compny System which platoons of 60 men each were introduced and trained as fighting units. Each re-formed company consisted of four platoons, and former company subalterns were appointed platoon commanders. Other important changes consisted of the abolition of Colour-Sergeants, and the appointment of Company Sergeant-Majors, and Company Quartermaster-Sergeants. Under this reorganization the following company mergers occurred: -
The 10th battn was reorganized on the 2 Jan 15 in the following way.
A & F Coys = A Coy
C & E Coys = B Coy
B & H Coys = C Coy
D & G Coys = D Coy
Form what you say about the reorganization of the 7th Battn and knowing what the 10th Battn was, I'd say it was a unit administered reorganization.
I hope this is of help/interest.
Dan
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12/2/2005, 7:54 pm
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frev
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Re: Re-organisation from 8 Coys to 4
Hi Graeme
Quote: "It doesn't matter what the question is, the answer will be somewhere in Bean!" This may be the exception to the rule.
Yes, it brings one back to the reality - that Bean was in fact - a mere mortal like ourselves - after all!!
Hi Dan
Thanks for your reply, it does help in a sense. As you said, it shows that it obviously wasn't uniform.
One of the soldiers I'm researching in the 14th Bn started off in F Coy - and for him to have been involved later in a certain engagement it's claimed he was in - he needed to be in B Coy.
It's possible he may have been transferred to B Coy for some other reason, but I was hoping it would have been cut & dried with the Company reshuffle.
A system that sounds good to me (and would suit my purpose here)
A&E = A
B&F = B
C&G = C
D&H = D
So there's still hope.
Brainwave just struck - time to chase up my pal with the 14th Bn Unit History - with a bit of luck they'll have mentioned it - dah!
Let you know if I get a result.
Cheers, Frev
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12/3/2005, 5:34 pm
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frev
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Re: Re-organisation from 8 Coys to 4
Well - just for the record - the 14th Battalion re-organised their companies just as I hoped they would. (see above) So I'm happy!
It seems a little weird though - three Battalions & three totally different methods of doing this - can't help wondering why. It doesn't seem quite 'army' - doing it however you like!!
Cheers, Frev.
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12/7/2005, 5:40 pm
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dan13
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Re: Re-organisation from 8 Coys to 4
Frev,
Well here's a fourth.
Just had a look at the 16th Battn (4th Brigade) history, it didn't reorganize till the 5th February 1915, after disembarking in Egypt on the 3rd.
As follows:-
A & C Coys = A Coy
B & D Coys = B Coy
E & H Coys = C Coy
F & G Coys = D Coy
I wonder how many combinations there are?
I'd also say the 14th Battn didn't change along with the rest of the 4th Brigade till early February, after arriving in Egypt (on the 31st January)
Cheers
Dan
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12/9/2005, 12:16 am
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frev
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Re: Re-organisation from 8 Coys to 4
Correct Dan - the 14th Bn changes came into effect on the 4th Feb.
I also did some more checking & found the following:
6th Bn:
A & E = A
B & F = B
C & G = C
D & H = D
[same re-org. as the 14th Bn]
8th Bn:
A & E = A
D & G = B
B & H = C
C & F = D
Getting quite a list together.
Cheers, Frev.
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12/9/2005, 3:18 pm
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merly3
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Re: Re-organisation from 8 Coys to 4
my gggranddad was a private service no 3163. he was with the 14th coy machine gun corps. He was KIA july 20, 1916.
War Grave Register Notes ROGERSON, Pte. George, 3163. 14th Coy. Australian Machine Gun Corps. Killed in action 20th July, 1916. Age 42. Husband of Alice M. Rogerson, of Dover, 7, Vernon St., Balmain, New South Wales. Born at Blackburn, England. XXI. F. 16.
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4/24/2007, 5:52 pm
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