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MatrixRunner57
The Skyclad Runner
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Young Man Blues
Holly, forgive me my mistakes but I believe I heard that are a wiccan?
I heard on the news that a teenager went to school with the area around his eyes painted red, his lips painted black and his hair spiky all around. He was sent home for being a distraction. He claimed he was being persecuted for religious reasons because his mother is a practicing wiccan.
I think he is either lying about his mother or trying to put the blame for his rebellion at his mother's door.
What say you?
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4/14/2005, 6:14 pm
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HollyG
High Priestess Of BroadSword
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Re: Young Man Blues
acyually I'm a 'Witch'
not Wiccan but all is groovy with me 
I would never make a snap opinion on 2nd hand news....
I'd have to see it myself 
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4/14/2005, 8:05 pm
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MatrixRunner57
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Re: Young Man Blues
Sounds good. Next time, I come across some strange news that I want to share, I will try to remember the source, so that you can look at it.
When I see you at the San Diego Convention, I plan to ask you why you did not care for the Buffy TV show. I think I heard you did not like it for personal reasons. My guess is it had something to do with the way they portrayed witches.
I thought it and Angel were among my favorite all-time TV shows.
Aren't differences of opinion beautiful?
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4/15/2005, 1:43 pm
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HollyG
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Re: Young Man Blues
I never watched it so I have no idea how they portrayed Witches....
If you read Vampfire you'd know 
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4/15/2005, 1:51 pm
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broadswordboy
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Re: Young Man Blues
*rolls eyes*
I love the idea that if I gel my hair wrong one morning, satin will enter my body and i'll start killing people...
that's what I call a bad hair day.
 
--- Chris (Aka- Broadsword Boy): forum manager
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4/15/2005, 4:59 pm
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ArtemisHi
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Re: Young Man Blues
*chuckle* Well, fear makes people do funny things. I remember when friends and I first formed our renaissance faire guild (a fantasy guild, of course) and were having a practice in a local park, a neighbor called the cops on us. They apparently saw one friend dressed all in black, and another wearing a large pentacle pendant, and decided we were worshipping satan. Yeah, the cops actually came and warned us not to worship satan in the public park. And they were completely serious. *rolls eyes* As you said, religion is an easy target.
BTW, Holly- you're the first person (other than myself) that I have heard refer to themself as a Witch and distinctly not Wiccan. Phew! Nice to know there are other non-Wiccan Witches out there (not that there's anything wrong with the Wiccan faith).
--- "When I'm good, I'm good- when I'm bad, I'm better."
-Mae West
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4/23/2005, 5:40 am
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MatrixRunner57
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Witch, Wicca
Holly,
I thought about your response and decided to do some reading. I did not know that Wicca could be separate from Witchcraft. I see the Beltane cards for sale and thought both Wicca and Witches celebrate the same holidays, so they must be alike.
I have purchased the Idiot's guide to Wicca and Witchcraft to better understand the difference. Even though my wife says that neither one is a real religion. I had to disagree with her on that one.
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4/27/2005, 6:18 pm
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Tengu
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Re: Young Man Blues
I live for the opportunity to "enlighten" the intellectually repressed masses about my background. It is a trial, being of a druidic bloodline and practicing same in St. Louis, Missouri. The prejudice was never evident in the UK. I moved to the states at a tender age and questioned the inadequacy of the Catholic path. My father told me of our history and voila! The ignorant have had a rough go with the Tengu ever on. The name "Tengu" gifted to me by Maasaki Hatsumi is indictative of my roots in Japanese mysticism. Togakure Ryu Ninjitsu and Druidism have the same basic tenets, yet are found on the opposite sides of the world. Let the bloody bible thumping majority choke on that one! 
---
Damn the monkeys!! Full speed ahead!!
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4/29/2005, 11:19 pm
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OWEBooks
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Re: Young Man Blues
Matrix...
Not all Witches are Wiccan.
In the USA, Wicca is a legally recognized religion. Witchcraft isn't protected under the same laws.
Here is site that does a nice job explaining it.
http://bbs.annex.com/raven/define.htm
Witchcraft & Wicca: How I Define Them
All Wiccans are Witches; but not all Witches are Wiccan
All Wiccans are Pagan; but not all Pagans are Wiccan
A Witch is a practitioner of natural/earth magicks and is not always a believer in any particular religion. There are and can be Christian Witches; Satanic Witches; Pagan Witches; Agnostic Witches; Witches of Santeria beliefs; or those whose belief systems center around African deities. Even an Atheist Witch is not an impossibility. To assume that all Witches must be Wiccan is to insult all of those who claim no Wiccan ties or ideals. All Wiccans [by this I mean British Traditional Wicca], however, are Witches by the very nature of their training.
Witchcraft is not a religion so much as a practice, a way of doing things. Though it must be stated up front that there are those who cannot differentiate their "craft" from their "path"/religious beliefs. For some it has become very much entangled with the other to the point where to ask someone to separate what they do from what they believe is very, very difficult. In fact so difficult that they cannot conceive of the possibility of there *not* being a religious influence in there.
And yet, on many lists, you will see the subject of Witchcraft come up and some bright young thing will state, in no uncertain terms, that Wicca and Witchcraft are the same, one cannot separate it. And I say, "bull". I have heard all too often from those who are *not* Wiccan that they resent being lumped together with the Wiccans when that is *not* what they are. I have heard it here too, on this very list.
Most of those from fam trads, the real ones that go back generations, are not Wiccan. They are Witches and proudly so. I would consider those of Druidry to be Witches, but not Wiccan [actually, I'd consider them to be Druids, but you know what I mean]. Those who are following the Tameran [old Egyptian] belief systems could be considered Witches, but Wiccan? I don't think they'd appreciate being labeled that way either. There are many traditions/belief systems out there that include Witchcraft as part of their practice but their faith is not Wicca-based. It is both inaccurate and insulting to label them as something they're not.
The New Forest Coven where Gerald Garder was initiated weren't Wiccan as we know it either, though it produced the basis by which Wicca came into being, with some heavy-duty editing and additions by GBG.
Wicca is a constructed religion, assembled by Gerald Gardner, who was assisted at times by Doreen Valiente, and carried forward by his lineal decendents [Gardnerians, Alexandrians and the other kindred traditions whose roots are within either of those two branches]. Witchcraft, itself, is a part of but not the whole of what Wicca is. Wicca incorporates much of the ceremonial magician, the cabalist and the earth loving pagan into its structure. It is an Initiatory, Oathbound, Mystery path whose members are trained in Witchcraft, Priestcraft and the High Magicks of the Ceremonial Magician/Cabalist. The degree to which each element is present will depend upon the Tradition involved, sometimes even to the coven involved. But one must remember that in the day and age in which GBG crafted Wicca, most of the people involved in the early years were already Occultists/Cabalists.
There is yet another form of Wicca that is present today. One that is often not Initiatory, Oathbound or Mystery oriented. Its members are generally not so oriented towards the Initiatory passages of Mystery faiths and magical orders, but the more nature oriented flow of earth magicks and pagan celebrations. They are often quite spontaneous and eclectic and base much of what they do on the works of Starhawk, Cunningham and Ravenwolf, among others, and even pull from Native American practices and still other sources. They share many common elements with their more British Traditional cousins, but aren't BTW. Let's not assume, of course, that that don't have their own requirements for advancement... anyone ever get a *good* look at the requirements for equivalent degrees in Ravenwolf's books? Now there's a list that could intimidate the newbie. And she calls it New Generation Witchcraft, not Wicca.
Nowadays, it's kind of hard to define who is what, as so many claim to be Wiccan but don't work within a BTW system. Just as the non-Wiccan Witches get indignant when called Wiccan, there's this tendency to label anything remotely similar to BTW as Wicca with the same results. And yet... while they don't have the same rites, rituals and goals as the BTWs, our more eclectic kindred still believe as we do in the dualistic nature of the Godhead and other common elements.
What do we call them? How do we define the differences between us so that there is no confusion and, more importantly, no hurt feelings? We simply *are not* the same. So, how do we give respect to each other without setting one or another's teeth on edge?
A Few Possibilities...
Wicca-based Paganism... Not witchcraft, but paganism with a Wiccan flavor. There really are those who want to be Wiccan but refuse to be witches.
American Eclectic Wicca... Spontaneous, firey/lively and very much into the flow of the moment. Equalists to the max. No "The Lady and Her Horned Consort" for them. The Lady and The Lord are fully equal, neither comes before the other. Witchcraft is a part of what they are. This is the "whatever works for me" crowd. Wicca is a big part of what they believe but they're not shy about adopting something else that works well for them. Some of our most creative spirits.
American Traditional Wicca... Similar to the AEWs but working via non-BTW traditions that are specific paths and who initiate and pass those traditions on to their "children". Oathbound, Initiatory, having their own Mysteries. Also equalists to the max. Witchcraft is a required part of their training.
British Traditional Wicca... Oathbound, Initiatory, Mystery path rooted in Gardnerian/Alexandrian traditions. Witchcraft is a required part of their training.
--- Collectors dealing for other collectors. COMIC RETAILERS PROUD TO CARRY BROADSWORD COMICS!
Cyndi http://www.owebooks.com
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5/5/2005, 3:01 pm
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one of the reasons that they said the kid shot @ that school on the resrvation was b/c he had a 'satanic hairdo'
