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jakD
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The Bible. Infallible?
This issue is something I've done a lot of prayer about. When I see people pick and choose (often completely out of context) passages that serve, as an example, an anti-homosexual view (that posting is coming up here soon), I feel that much of their point is a moot one, because in my opinion the bible isn't perfect. It was certainly inspired by God, I believe, but I think that anything written, censored, and translated by men...fallen men, can't be perfect. R.A. Torey asserts, "But if we accept the authority of Christ we must accept the authority of the Bible as a whole". I get somewhat resentful at this rationale. My mother tells me that I can't "pick and choose" the parts of the bible that I like, and reject what I don't, claiming the bible is infallible. But she is constantly interpreting scripture to serve a point she is making, often completely out of context. For instance, taking a strong anti-gay view, but conveniently ignoring scripture regarding divorce; similarly, I see people pull an anti-tattoo position out of Leviticus (Lev 19:28) without explaining its context (mainly, keeping Israelites "pure" and separate) or mentioning the other rules contained there that seem completely inappropriate for our modern world (not shaving, having sex during menstruation, wearing clothing made of mixed fabrics...)
Often, it's overlooked that it's old testament law in the first place...but again, that's all for another topic. But I'm curious what others think of this issue of the bible and infallibility. I believe that Jesus Christ was all God, and all man, sent here to die for my sins. I have felt His grace, and have accepted Him as my Lord and Savior. But I simply can't believe the the bible is infallible. I don't think it's that black and white. I think all scripture has to be looked at in its context, as written by imperfect men. Can I consider myself a true Christian? Is there another name for people like me?
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Jan/28/2008, 11:21 am
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EME015
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Re: The Bible. Infallible?
I'll keep my answer short and sweet =)
I believe the Bible is infallible....it's just our interpretation of it can be wrong. We're the ones who are fallible, not the Bible.
In our attempts to be wise, comforted, reassured, etc. we can insert meanings and understandings of Scripture that aren't true...or exact. Yes, fallible men were used to write it, but when inspired DIRECTLY by the Spirit of the Living God, I don't think God would leave any room for error. My faith and trust in the fact that the Bible is infallible comes from my faith and trust in God, not the hands of the men that were used to write it =)
Maybe part of the reason you aren't able to fully be at peace with it all is because you're looking more at the people whose hands were used to write it rather than the Spirit in which spoke the words to begin with.
Hope that makes sense....
I do have a suggestion though....if you go to God with your doubts and your questions, he'll answer them, in His own way...in the right time. Keep asking him, over and over, until you get your answer. This is one of those awesome questions that I believe brings immense Joy to God's heart when he knows we're seeking the truth with all of our heart. You're wanting to know the answers to a very good question....let God be the one with the final word on this one ;-)
And fyi, your assurance into the Kingdom of Heaven depends on one thing alone...accepting the fact that Jesus died and finished it all for you already....you just have to keep walking in that truth!!!! Keep pressin' forward!!!
Well, I guess that wasn't too short of an answer LOLOL =)
In Peace and Love,
Emily
Last edited by EME015, Jan/29/2008, 11:41 am
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Jan/29/2008, 11:33 am
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earringfella
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Re: The Bible. Infallible?
quote:
EME015 wrote:
I'll keep my answer short and sweet =)
I believe the Bible is infallible....it's just our interpretation of it can be wrong. We're the ones who are fallible, not the Bible.
In our attempts to be wise, comforted, reassured, etc. we can insert meanings and understandings of Scripture that aren't true...or exact. Yes, fallible men were used to write it, but when inspired DIRECTLY by the Spirit of the Living God, I don't think God would leave any room for error. My faith and trust in the fact that the Bible is infallible comes from my faith and trust in God, not the hands of the men that were used to write it =)
Maybe part of the reason you aren't able to fully be at peace with it all is because you're looking more at the people whose hands were used to write it rather than the Spirit in which spoke the words to begin with.
Hope that makes sense....
I do have a suggestion though....if you go to God with your doubts and your questions, he'll answer them, in His own way...in the right time. Keep asking him, over and over, until you get your answer. This is one of those awesome questions that I believe brings immense Joy to God's heart when he knows we're seeking the truth with all of our heart. You're wanting to know the answers to a very good question....let God be the one with the final word on this one ;-)
And fyi, your assurance into the Kingdom of Heaven depends on one thing alone...accepting the fact that Jesus died and finished it all for you already....you just have to keep walking in that truth!!!! Keep pressin' forward!!!
Well, I guess that wasn't too short of an answer LOLOL =)
In Peace and Love,
Emily
Good post.
Take care.
---
Trust the Bible.
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Jan/29/2008, 4:03 pm
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jakD
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Re: The Bible. Infallible?
I appreciate the responses. However, like I said, this is the conclusion I've come to, after MUCH prayer. I feel this IS the answer God has given me. It might not be a popular view, but it is what I feel is truth. I do trust the bible. I believe I was drawn to the bible, in fact to a precise passage in Romans 5, when I initially accepted Christ. I believe the bible was inspired by God, just not that it is free of error. This puts me on the opposite side of the fence with most Christians, but it is what I have come to believe.
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Jan/29/2008, 10:54 pm
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EME015
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 Re: The Bible. Infallible?
quote:
jakD wrote:
I appreciate the responses. However, like I said, this is the conclusion I've come to, after MUCH prayer. I feel this IS the answer God has given me. It might not be a popular view, but it is what I feel is truth. I do trust the bible. I believe I was drawn to the bible, in fact to a precise passage in Romans 5, when I initially accepted Christ. I believe the bible was inspired by God, just not that it is free of error. This puts me on the opposite side of the fence with most Christians, but it is what I have come to believe.
I just wanted to make sure that I was clear with what I said...I just think you might have misunderstood what I was saying. I DO believe the Bible is without error. I think maybe I got a little to "wordy" with my reply and might have lost you LOL....Do I believe the men who wrote it were fallen and imperfect, yes.....do I believe that means the Bible is imperfect, no. I believe the Bible is perfect and without error.....WE are the ones who sometimes read it wrong or interpret it wrong. I hope that clarifies my point.
Just in the same way that God uses each of us each and every day for different purposes, for different moments of His work. Just because we're fallen and imperfect Christians, does that mean that when we do something that God asks us to, that it's not really God's work because someone imperfect was used to do it? I don't think so personally, I think it's still the work of God regardless of who is used to do it. In the same way, even though imperfect people were used to write the Bible, I still believe that our God is big enough to have made himself clear when instructing those who wrote it.
because we see this differently, do I think this makes me right or better and you wrong or not "as good" of a Christian...absolutely not, that's just silly talk lol !!!! ;-) LoL this is something that God can make clear once we're all in Heaven sitting around the Big Table ;-) I don't think it should be something that divides Christians on to "sides of fences". It is God and God alone who can convict a heart on such a matter as this. Just make sure that in your endeavor to find your answer to this that you sit and wait on God's voice alone with this one. That includes not listening to your own as well ;-) We're all on the same side of the fence, just with different view points and experiences.
Don't let this one thing make you feel isolated or "different", we're all different for a reason =) Just keep trusting God, listen to His voice, and let Him be the one to guide your view....and it sounds to me like he already has, so don't doubt the voice of the Holy Spirit. In Romans 14 it talks a lot about not condemning each other because we're all to answer to only one person, God. The Holy Spirit convicts us all according to how we are called...anyone who tries to convict you differently than how the Spirit has already led you, dare I say, might not be acting in love but in self-righteous condemnation. Remember this awesome verse and I think it'll bring you comfort:
James 1:5&6, "5 If you need wisdom, ask our generous God, and he will give it to you. He will not rebuke you for asking. 6 But when you ask him, be sure that your faith is in God alone. Do not waver, for a person with divided loyalty is as unsettled as a wave of the sea that is blown and tossed by the wind."
~If you've gotten your answer, then take comfort in His reply and move forward with loving him. Too many people get too caught up in the absolute right "interpretation" of things and miss out on the big message of God's word........which is LOVE =) Remember two other things as well....in Job, everyone throughout the entire book had their thoughts and opinions, including Job himself...they were all wrong and God came down and clarified it in his own time, it's possible that you have heard God's voice and may have just not heard all of it....keep listening...WHEN YOU HAVE PEACE ABOUT YOUR ANSWER, THAT'S WHEN YOU KNOW YOU HAVE HEARD THE VOICE OF GOD...FOR HIS IS THE ONE THAT BRINGS PEACE =)
Your Sister in Him,
EME
PS~I really gotta learn how to write shorter replies LOLOLOL~Sorry I rambled =)
Last edited by EME015, Jan/30/2008, 6:34 pm
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Jan/30/2008, 11:52 am
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earringfella
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Re: The Bible. Infallible?
Put another way, if you hold that God has supposedly misled you by putting errors in His Word, why should you be surprised if God in turn holds your profession of faith to be itself misleading?
I'm not trying to be hostile to you personally; it just can be useful to reduce the issues to some clear statements.
---
Trust the Bible.
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Jan/30/2008, 2:47 pm
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EME015
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Re: The Bible. Infallible?
okay, I woke up from a nap and was in the middle of reading God's word and had to come back and edit my second reply LOL, God convicted me about something I had said that was too passive. Anyways, I have no clue where all of those freaking winky faces came from....it's the attack of the mysterious winker! LOLOL
that is all.
lol
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Jan/30/2008, 6:29 pm
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jakD
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Re: The Bible. Infallible?
quote:
earringfella wrote:
Put another way, if you hold that God has supposedly misled you by putting errors in His Word, why should you be surprised if God in turn holds your profession of faith to be itself misleading?
I'm not trying to be hostile to you personally; it just can be useful to reduce the issues to some clear statements.
I never said I was misled. I said that the conclusion I came to is that the Bible is not free of error, is not perfect, and is not perfectly written. And I don't feel that my profession of faith is misleading. What you're saying is combative, and is a perfect example of what I feel is one of the primary problems among Christians; the divisiveness and inability to accept different views.
I hear things like, "Well, you can't just pick and choose the parts you like..." or "You can't trust God and not trust His word." Says who? I know that God is real, and I know that Jesus saved my life. I simply hold a different view of the Bible. Once we start pointing fingers and using language like, "...why should you be surprised if God in turn holds your profession of faith to be itself misleading?", it becomes animosity and disunity. Are you telling me that you know what God feels about my faith? This is why I prefer the term "Jesus freak" to Christian much of the time. I meet too many Christians that do way too much finger-waving, quarreling, and condemning. As EME015 said, we're all on the same side of the fence.
Another thing I've noticed, is that when my view is different from other Christians, whether it's the issue of homosexuality (that post is coming soon) or the infallibility of the Bible, I'm always told that I need to keep listening...keep searching for the TRUE answer. This is funny to me, because it implies that because I hold a different view, God simply hasn't answered me yet. But this IS the answer I've received, and I've spent much time in prayer on this issue. I like to initiate this sort of dialogue on here because I'm curious how others feel about it. But don't confuse that with me simply searching for how to feel about it. I believe that the Bible is not perfect, or without error. That is my position. Divinely inspired, yes. But perfect? I don't believe so. I've visited many churches and talked to many Christians who I feel have a view that is way off base. I've visited a prosperity church in Arizona, and heard a pastor actually say, "Don't expect huge miracles if you're putting jingly money in the basket," and also heard him call a smaller, local grassroots church a "nowhere church...a church that is going nowhere." How can a church that hits the bricks and tells people about Jesus be "going nowhere"? I felt resentful, even angry for a long time after leaving the service, and still feel that a good friend of mine who belongs to the church is part of something that I don't feel reflects the teachings of Christ. But that is their own church, doing their own thing. It certainly wouldn't work for me, but it works for them, and I have to leave it at that. The bottom line is that he has accepted Jesus. Like EME015 pointed out, WE are the ones who screw it up (that's not a direct quote), not God. Yes, I also believe He will make it all clear to us one day when we're sitting around the table with him in paradise.
I do like this discussion, and I appreciate the feedback. But I don't want to argue. Like EME015, I also believe we are all on the same side of the fence, as soon as we accept Jesus as our Lord and Savior. Ultimately, I think that is the most important thing.
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Jan/31/2008, 5:35 am
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EME015
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Re: The Bible. Infallible?
Hey =)
I can understand your frustration. There are many things that I was taught as a child and growing up that within the last few years I began to question. God has been awesome in the fact that as I search, he continues to teach. Even things I thought I understood...there are so many different layers to them that he knows I can handle it all at once so reveals it to me continuously and slowly. Just so ya know, when I said keep listening and seeking...i didn't mean that to say "keep looking until your opinion matches mine" ;-) I only say that because our God is a god who continues to reveal himself...how can we ever truly know all of him, it's impossible (and that's what's awesome and that's what makes him God) And I meant that in all things...I think you're on the right track towards where God is taking you....not only in your knowledge of things, but just in your life in general. He's taking you down the path that you need to go for whatever purpose it is he has for you. So keep seeking him (like you already are) and keep following his leading (as you already are) and all that HE needs and wants for you will be.
I look forward to dining around God big table with you and seeing his eyes sparkle when we ask him this question together...it'll make for good table talk =) just as it does here =) I enjoy hearing your viewpoints and look forward to your next post as I have a sister who has been "out of the closet" for over ten years...it'll be an interesting one for sure!
Last edited by EME015, Jan/31/2008, 9:39 am
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Jan/31/2008, 9:38 am
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Forgivenchild
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Re: The Bible. Infallible?
How important is this doctrine then? If it is biblical teaching, then to deny it is to deny part of the truthfulness of the Bible.But consinder this: If the Bible contains errors, However few or many, how can one be sure that his understanding of Christ is correct? Perhaps one of those errors concerns something about the life of Christ. It would not be impossible that there might be an error about the crucial matter of His death and resurrection. What then would happen to one's Christology? It would be changed, perhaps even so drastically that there would be no Christian faith to embrace. Even if the errors are supposedly in "minor". When inerrancy is denied one may expect some serious fallout in both doctrinal and practial areas.
Perhaps the tension would be eased if we defined inerrancy positively-the inerrancy of the Bible means simply that the Bible tells the truth. Truth can and does include approximations, free quotations, language of appearances, and different accounts of the same event as long as these do not contradict.
Most debates over truth and error get off track when they become philosophical and not down to earth. Most people understand clearly and easily that approximations, etc., tell the truth. The Bible is inerrant in that it tells the truth, and it does so without error in all parts and with all its words.
If it were not so, then how could the Lord affirm that man lives by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God (Matt. 4:4), especially if all Scripture is breathed out by God? (2 Tim. 3:16)
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Jan/31/2008, 1:09 pm
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