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Fitzgerald Fortune
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Re: Watch this space
quote:
Edge44 wrote:
quote:
Fitzgerald Fortune wrote:
quote:
Edge44 wrote:
And of course we now have complaints about the Army's marketing strategies invading schools.
Yes, that's a very overt approach; industry tends to use a slightly more covert approach, accessing schools via sponsorship deals and such. Ten years ago, people were up in arms about this self-same issue; but nowadays, people seem strangely happy to accept it.
I guess that we're all 'good consumers' now, from a very early age.
Yes, we queue up regularly in patient, well behaved lines and consciously hand over our money with a smile in return for something ridiculously expensive that we don't really need... or is that just me 
I guess, in the end, it's a form of habit; if we're exposed to something for long enough we simply accept it.
I must admit that the 'backdoor' approach by which the ideologies of commerce and industry are infiltrating education are a particular bugbear of mine; and education is increasingly portrayed by the media as little more than a tool for commerce and industry. It's a particularly insidious form of social engineering.
Last edited by Fitzgerald Fortune, 3/28/2008, 8:10 pm
--- 'Don't let the sound of your own wheels drive you crazy'.
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3/28/2008, 8:08 pm
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Edge44
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Re: Watch this space
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Fitzgerald Fortune wrote:
I must admit that the 'backdoor' approach by which the ideologies of commerce and industry are infiltrating education are a particular bugbear of mine; and education is increasingly portrayed by the media as little more than a tool for commerce and industry. It's a particularly insidious form of social engineering.
The capitalist machine is set to automatic, and as soon as we become aware of the world around us, it conditions us to its ways. Society = conditioning in many various forms. The young uns are prime targets as they do not know any better. Parents, in fact all adults, have a responsibility to protect them, but most grownd ups are so conditioned by it they hardly pay attention to what's ging on.
Besides, capitalism forces us on a daily basis to focus deeply on balancing the economics of our lives - working hard at a career so we can pay the bills that flood in - so much that time becomes so scarce that protecting our children from insidious add campaigns becomes less important than ensuring our kids are fed and clothed... and that they've got the latest extortionately priced computer games console.
It's been the theme of many a novel and many a movie, but it's still relevant - how can one fight such a machine as capitalism?
---
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3/28/2008, 11:23 pm
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algy
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Re: Watch this space
IIIII IIIII I
I've sent out eight more. This time with a big thick wedge of a sample of my prose. Can't wait till those rejections come in...
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4/5/2008, 7:23 pm
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algy
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Re: Watch this space
IIIII IIIII III
The first rejection from the sample is in. Still no feedback but no 13 did assure me that my idea was considered at length.
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5/2/2008, 3:53 pm
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algy
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Re: Watch this space
I'd given up on this thread due to disillusionment and more than a little embarrassment at my naivete.
My novel has now been consigned to the proverbial drawer of the harddrive as I start another project. The rejections have so far got to 17. The on Wednesday evening an American chap rang me. very nice he was; enthusiastic, ebullient, even effusive about me and work. His accent meant that it didn't sound creepy or wrong as he extolled the virtues of me and work. He told me about marketing stratergy and his plan for Suspended before and after we approach publishers. He called me Al in that accent, which sounded really cool. He kept me going for ten minutes or more as he sang my praises to the heavens. I was very excited and trying to keep my head as he asked me questions and answered my own. We agreed that we should move forward as quickly as possible and begin the process of submitting to publishers. All he needed from me was £350.
You know when the needle scratches across the record?
Bugger.
Still, I turned down my first agent yesterday 
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8/8/2008, 9:50 am
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Edge44
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Re: Watch this space
quote:
algy wrote:
I'd given up on this thread due to disillusionment and more than a little embarrassment at my naivete.
My novel has now been consigned to the proverbial drawer of the harddrive as I start another project. The rejections have so far got to 17. The on Wednesday evening an American chap rang me. very nice he was; enthusiastic, ebullient, even effusive about me and work. His accent meant that it didn't sound creepy or wrong as he extolled the virtues of me and work. He told me about marketing stratergy and his plan for Suspended before and after we approach publishers. He called me Al in that accent, which sounded really cool. He kept me going for ten minutes or more as he sang my praises to the heavens. I was very excited and trying to keep my head as he asked me questions and answered my own. We agreed that we should move forward as quickly as possible and begin the process of submitting to publishers. All he needed from me was £350.
You know when the needle scratches across the record?
Bugger.
Still, I turned down my first agent yesterday
And quite right, too - as you probably well know, no reputable agent will take money up-front, they earn a percentage of whatever you earn from selling your work! Any agency that works differently to this should be ignored - it's aiming to rob you!
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8/9/2008, 12:25 pm
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algy
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Yeah he let himself down when I told him no the next day. when he first offered to 'represent' me he wanted a decision by 12-noon because he had other irons in the fire, yet when he heard my rejection I suddenly had six months to come up with the cash or I could pay in two installments.
The worst thing is I was still tempted even though I *knew* that I shouldn't do it. How many poeple without the benefit of Chris Dows' voice bending their ears will fall for it? Even if the guy was genuine his list of clients and books was wholly unimpressive for someone who claimed to place two thirds of the writers he took on. I'm over it. Sniff...
Last edited by algy, 8/9/2008, 8:08 pm
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8/9/2008, 8:08 pm
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Edge44
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Re: Watch this space
I know what you mean - it's your first novel and 'any' promise of representation is tempting. But the point is that it is only your first novel and you have to take the positives of that - you've completed it and it's out there. That's more than most wannabe writers ever accomplish, including me up to now (my novel's now in the bottom draw and will not see the light of day again until I've completed my MA, on which I am concentrating on screenwriting).
Pick another handful of agents/publishers and get it back out there, regardless of the rejections. You know the stories of famous writers who were rejected x-amount of times before they made it big. Patience and persistence, the latter being the most important, I believe. And ignore those agencies that ask for a so-called 'reading fee', no matter how tempting they sound - remember that they're just salespeople - do you listen to the person that phones to sell you new windows?
I'd say best of luck but I don't belive in the notion of luck or fate...
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8/10/2008, 12:22 am
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algy
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With you on the luck thing. I have had two other agents say that they're interested in the idea but that my writing isn't good enough. This has prompted a summer re-draft which has gone off to new people, and if I pluck up the courage I'll ring the agents that liked the idea and see if they fancy reading the re-draft. As you say persistance is the key but it's sometimes to hard to follow through.
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This is why we come
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When those Spurs are done
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8/10/2008, 7:29 am
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Edge44
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Persistence is boredom, really - rewriting and rewriting and resubmitting, but that's what the Professional stands for in Professional Writing. It's the hardest part of writing, or any career, I believe - continuously redoing the same thing over and over again - professional golfers train their swing 1000s of times a day to get into a particular position to hit the ball in a certain way. That's boredom, but it's what makes them professional.
As for your writing not being good enough - your most important aim now should be to make it good enough. Read lots of how-to books, search the web for how-to articles, and concentrate on improving the areas in which you think you're lacking. Practice, practice, practice, and remember, don't train a thousand things once, train one thing a thousand times...easy to say but hard to do. It's down to the individual.
I know that you opted to do the teaching thing but an MA taught course in writing would have really helped you in this department, I can personally vouch for that; I've learnt loads and I still have a year to go on mine. The quality of professional advice has taken a massive leap from BA Prof Writing to the MA I'm currently studying.
For novel-specific techniques try reading these books:
The Art of Fiction by David Lodge
The Practice of Writing by David Lodge (anything by David Lodge will be good for you)
The Creative Writing Coursebook by Andrew Motion
Self-Editing for Fiction Writers, Second Edition: How to Edit Yourself Into Print by Rennie Browne & Dave King (demonstrates fiction techniques that will definitely improve your writing)
The Handbook of Creative Writing by Dr Steven Earnshaw (this one's pricey but great, put together by all the lecturers on my MA degree - get it from library if available)
There's plenty of others you could read but my advice is to stay clear of the academically-based material - I've found that it's best as a practising (albeit unpublished) writer to read how-to books by practising writers and not theorists.
---
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8/11/2008, 11:37 am
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