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psCargile
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TIE series
Hi guys.
Since you given me this TIE stuff to work on, I've been pouring over the pictures, developing some ideas, and doing some research on solar panels, photoelectric effect, and ion drives. The TIE is son simple that it is feasible to acytually build a working one with today's technology, albeit it won't perform like the movie version.
I've had some ideas about the name as well. I figured we could say that Twin is an acronym that became a common noun much like radar and laser. So I've been pondering and researching the NASA aeroaspace online dictionary for appropiate words that could fit the bill. Something I've discovered about real ion engines, or at least some types, is the need to keep the electric charge of the craft neutral so that the positive charged exhaust isn't attracted to a negatively charged chasis. There are all sorts of arrangement for T, W, and I, but N should stand for Neutrilized, or Neutrility, or something to that effect. What I have so far is Tri-axial Wave Induced Neutrilized Ion Engine. So the fighter body's electrical charge is neutralized by the tr-axial wave induction system, whatever the hell that is. Sound sci-fi. Of course other option are on the table. But just having two engines isn't special enough to justify the designation. The TWIN system probably isn't new and could be common on small space probes. The uniqueness is that this type of ion engine is used in a fighter, and that could be enough justification.
And because ion engines are so simple, we can say its fuel is an actual fuel used in some types, indium--a liquid metal to boot.
Saxton says the panels are radiators, but how does the coolant get rid of its heat? He also doesn't think that the power requirements of the TIE would be met with solar energy, and they wouldn't using the photoelectric materials available to us today. However, if we carry forth with my idea of using exotic and designer atomic materials, we can circumvent that problem.
Thoughts and ideas. . .
Last edited by Lucas P, 9/17/2006, 3:45 pm
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10/27/2005, 12:09 am
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Lucas P
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Re: TIE series
I like your suggestions.
Curtis Saxton is a physics professor. Perhaps it would be worthwhile to consult with him to determine viability or other ideas on the subject.
I think it is worth studying.
Good job Paul.
--- Only 2 things are infinite; The Universe, and human stupidity and I'm not sure about the former. - Albert Einstein
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10/27/2005, 1:30 am
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psCargile
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Re: TIE series
I know he is, and i know that he has been involved in some of the prequel "Amazing Cutaways."
I think for anyone to arrive at a particular function for any part or assembly, one has to make assumptions based on how they might work. He makes assumptions that the TIE has a reactor that generates a lot of waste heat. So in this manner, radiator panels are a good idea. But if we make assumptions that it doesn't generate a lot of waste heat, then we can conclude other functions to our liking. I feel that as a atarfighter, the designers would want the craft to be difficult to target. Having a "bright" infra-red signiture for heat seeking missiles is not a wise idea.
There are many things we need to determine or at least come to a concensus on, like what are power converters, which is why I opened the thread on power in Tech Discuss.
Last edited by Lucas P, 9/17/2006, 3:45 pm
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10/27/2005, 10:15 am
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Lucas P
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Re: TIE series
That's a really good point. To be honest I don't like the idea that they are radiators either.
What do we know about the TIE Fighter though?
In ANH when the MF exits hyperspace and they take a couple of pot shots from a passing TIE
"That's a short range fighter" says Ben.
So, that was in the Alderaan System. Which means that the Fighter was relatively close to the system's star, and a solar panel might make sense for those big panels.
The TIE Fighter is the primary fighter in the imperial forces and so is attached to all the major capital ships.
Do we know for sure that the ships in SW fight battles in deep space?
For example, let's say that an ISD finds itself between earth and Alpha Centauri, that's about 2 light years away from the nearest star. IF those are solar panels then they would have to be incredibly powerful, because the light from the stars is incredibly weak. Look at the contrast between night and day, they would be immersed in darkness.
perhaps they are collectors of a different kind...like polarized hydrogen collectors or something, the panels are louvered...maybe that is a better explanation...and it would not have to rely on a nearby star for power.
let me know what you think.
regards,
Lucas
--- Only 2 things are infinite; The Universe, and human stupidity and I'm not sure about the former. - Albert Einstein
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10/27/2005, 2:45 pm
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psCargile
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Re: TIE series
I want to get back to the engines. I ghave a better idea. We know that ion engines are particles accelerators of a sort, but what if the TWIN stands for a type of particle accelerator normally used in high energy physics? In this case we have a Tria-axial Wave Induction Nano-accelerator, that works like an afterburner. The waves in question could be quantum gravity waves or high powered magnetic fields. This way its the particle accelerator that is making the ion engine unique. The term "Tie fighter" is no different than the term "jetfighter" in that both are vehicles discribed by their propulsion method. TIE is probably a term used by the Alliance in the same manner that NATO made code words for Soviet aircraft. The Imperial Navy must have a production designation other than TIE.
As far as power system goes, I favor my exotic matter theory because it keeps the science fantastic and rather simple and it doesn't make Star Wars too real. We are like a Bronze age dude thrown into the modern age and wonderous about electricity, radio, television, cell phones, and the like. We only understand the power of fire, water, and wind, and the motive power of beast-of-burden and our own hands. Our culture is based on electricity, Star Wars is based on quantum gravity. We haven't even begun to ask all the proper questions that will lead us to quantum gravity. So I feel that trying to force SW tech into an electrical culture is going to result it a lot of short falls. With exotic energy and matter I am taking a huge short-cut without shame, inventing fuels and reactants with enormous potential energy to be used to make the ships do the things we see them do.
I'd venture to say that ships don't do much in deepspace except get lost and advance a plot. Even at the end of Empire, we must assume that they are in a solar system because of the light. We are supposed to believe they are in intergalactic space. And they could be, in orbit around a rogue star flung out the galaxy--not impossible. I believe that exotic matter can be applied to photovoltaics, to create materials that have photoelectric effects far outside the range of what normal elements, compounds, and alloys can today. Maybe even so to the effect that the TIE can use the RF energy from theirs or enemy active scanners and communications. These would be solar cells that produce electricity from microwaves. Isn't that possible already?
Here's how my TIE power circuit works. The solars cells collect energy and produce electrical current. This current is routed to the hub where a power converter awaits. In this sense a power converter is nothing more than a stepup/-down transformer. The voltage is increased and the current is sent to the reaction chamber of the ion engine. Here an exotic fuel is exposed to the current which makes the exotic component of the fuel release in a burst of energy which turns the rest of the fuel into charged plasma. The plasma races through the nano-acclerator and is ejected producing thrust.
Last edited by Lucas P, 9/17/2006, 3:45 pm
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10/27/2005, 11:18 pm
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psCargile
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Re: TIE series
Here's some links.
ISS active thermal control system
full spectrum solar cells
solar cells at Wikipedia a place I'm finding very useful.
photoelectrical effect at Hyperphysics
Last edited by Lucas P, 9/17/2006, 3:45 pm
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10/29/2005, 8:38 pm
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Grtak
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Re: TIE series
The "panels" could help steer the ship by creating an energy feild like repuslor craft do for lift
---
"You can call me GR" -GRtak
If people read this, they would not use more than two letters when addressing me.
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10/30/2005, 6:09 pm
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psCargile
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proof
They say that the proof is in the pudding. The pudding in this case is the TIE fighter wing. The proof is a reflection.
I asked Lucas over AIM which he thought was more reflective, radiators, or solar panels. He said solar panels. So do I.
This is from the SE, so Frank only sees a large black rectangle. There are other scenes of reflectivity as well. This would indicate that the cells don't capture all the light that strikes them, some bounce out. I believe this is true of real solar cells.
Last edited by Lucas P, 9/17/2006, 3:46 pm
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10/31/2005, 1:14 am
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Sathen
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Re: TIE series
quote:
The term "Tie fighter" is no different than the term "jetfighter" in that both are vehicles discribed by their propulsion method. TIE is probably a term used by the Alliance in the same manner that NATO made code words for Soviet aircraft. The Imperial Navy must have a production designation other than TIE.
Nice thought but the Imperials refer to them as TIE fighters. Also Han was once a TIE pilot as well and refers to them by that name in the Han Solo Trilogy. That takes place a few years before the Rebellion is fully formed.
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10/31/2005, 3:00 am
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Lucas P
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Re: TIE series
Sathen, what Paul is referring to is that the acronym TIE may not necessarily mean TWO ION ENGINES.
It does refer to TWIN ION Engines, but it is likely yet another acronym.
It is a fact that Vader's TIE Fighter actually has FOUR thrust nozzles, but it is not a FIE Fighter.
Also, in ANH, I do not recall a single time that they refer to them as TIE Fighters, but as 'Enemy Fighters', 'They're coming in! 3 Marks at 210!', 'those fighters', 'they', 'them', etc...which is standard parlance.
In the later films they do refer to them as TIE Fighters, but that may be a distinction between the type of craft, like JET versus PROP, or fixed wing versus rotary. Or perhaps that they are Fighters and not freighters or civilian craft.
Quite frankly, it is irrelevant that Han may have been a former TIE Fighter Pilot before becoming a smuggler. We know that several of the X wing pilots in ANH and Luke's friends joined 'the academy' which is imperial flight school, and therefore likely most of the pilots in the rebellion were former imperial pilots that defected to the rebellion.
regards,
Lucas
--- Only 2 things are infinite; The Universe, and human stupidity and I'm not sure about the former. - Albert Einstein
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10/31/2005, 6:04 am
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