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Lucas P
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Registered: 09-2005
Location: Vancouver, Canada
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Life Support systems
A very interesting discussion was started by klick in the IRC Chat.
Stemming from a discussion regarding life support in an escape pod and then progressing to the time it might have taken for Qui Gon and Obi Wan to swim to the gungan city in Episodee One, we have been discussing their use of the little 'things' they put in their mouths.
Ultimately this led to us trying to determine the limits of life support technology in Star Wars.
1) we must assume that their technology is better than real life (duh). In so doing, we can assume that the materials are superior and so we can assume that material used for pressurized tanks is very reliable and of fantastic quality - so we do not need to factor particular materials like steel.
2) How much air do human lungs require for each breath?
3) how much of that air becomes waste when it is exhaled?
4) how would you account for the temperature drop when you decompress gas?
5) can you recycle the waste gas into a usable form for the life support system?
It would be nice to be able to determine how long a person can survive in a closed system life support system.
--- Only 2 things are infinite; The Universe, and human stupidity and I'm not sure about the former. - Albert Einstein
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7/19/2006, 12:01 pm
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50stone
Imperial Tourist
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Registered: 12-2005
Location: London, England
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Re: Life Support systems
Something that might show just how good SW life support is, is the post-ejection lifespan of the fighter pilots in X-wing books.
Basically the life expectancy of the pilots is only restricted by the life span of a personal magnetic containment field battery and the dibilitating effects of the cold that seeps in. All they're life support is either on their person or located in their ejection seat indicating it's small or very small.
I also remember a reference to the Tie pilot's lifesupport gear being completely contained on their person and lasting quite some time, there is a reference to a canister being replaced and a pilot carrying extra lifesupport during the battle against the Iron Fist and Razor's Claw(?) if someone wants to read up on it.
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7/19/2006, 12:10 pm
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tpkc klick
Kuati Merchant Prince
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Location: Binghamton, New York
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Re: Life Support systems
How much air do human lungs require for each breath?
An adult human breathes between 500ml and 700ml of air in the average breath, and absorbs 250ml of oxygen.
How much of that air becomes waste when it is exhaled?
200ml of CO2 is exhaled per breath.
How would you account for the temperature drop when you decompress gas?
Real world SCUBA tanks contain air that is compressed at between 180 and 300 times atmospheric pressure, and this air can be inhaled without heating when decompressed to 1 atmosphere through a simpe mechanical regulator. Simple answer: don't compress the gas much beyond this, or heat it when it emerges.
Can you recycle the waste gas into a usable form for the life support system?
Someone familiar with air scrubbers will have to field this, though it is conceivable using Star Wars technology.
50- I think you mean Razor's Kiss. Quite a poetic name.
---
wow, flood, heat wave, tornado...holy **** Mike, time to move, don't you think? -Lucas P
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7/19/2006, 12:22 pm
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AgentToon
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Location: Ohio
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Re: Life Support systems
My theory on how a SW Life Support system would possibly work is that the systems use an air scrubber that is designed to maintain a certain percentage level of oxygen in the ai. When that percentage drops below a certain level, the catalytic scrubber pulls carbon from the CO2 in the air, changing it into usable O2 and raw carbon. Such a scrubber should continue to work so long as power is fed to it and the carbon removed. And given sufficiently advanced technology, such an air scrubber could easily fit into the chest piece of a tie pilot and not really need anything actually resembling an air tank as one hose would carry the used air to the scrubber when the pilot breathed out and the other would return scrubbed air to the helmet.
Such a sctrubber would then be limited only by the amount of carbon it could store and the amount of power it used.
And in a truely inspirational feat, the catalyzer cleaner that would be back at the pilot's base of operations could recharge the power, empty the carbon storage and recycle the waste carbon into something useful, like a buckyball lubricant powder or carbon fullerene tubes.
Interestingly enough, such a system would also make carrying a supply of breathable air on a ship less a matter of carrying oxygen to replenish dwindling atmospheric content and more a matter of just carrying enough to make up for leakage amounts.
(The beautiful thing of the Sar Wars universe is that George was smart enough to not make up any of the technobabble and just showed it working. After all, how often do we talk about activating power systems and such in everyday life? I know I don't, I just press the button, flip the switch or turn the nob, watch the thing come on and keep moving along on what I was going to use it for.)
---
I love deadlines. I like the whooshing sound they make as they fly by.
- Douglas Adams
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7/19/2006, 1:13 pm
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DeFoe
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Re: Life Support systems
The average human breathes a volume of 750ml air.
Air consits of 78% Nitrogen, 21% Oxygen and some other gases.
So, a normal human inhales 160 ml pure oxygen, not 250 ml as you stated.
And from this, only 25% are actually used. If it were 100%, mouth to mouth respiration would not work.
---
"Suggestion: Shall we find something to kill to cheer ourselves up?"
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7/19/2006, 1:15 pm
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50stone
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Location: London, England
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Re: Life Support systems
That also means the novel references about extra lifesupport most likely is the replacement scrubber cartridges replacing saturated ones right.
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7/19/2006, 1:17 pm
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AgentToon
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Location: Ohio
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Re: Life Support systems
That would be the way I'd handle it. - A replacement combination waste storage/power cell cartrige that would plug into the scrubber unit.
The concept is something of a cross between the CO2 scrubbers that can be found on a submarine or spacecraft today and the catalytic converter mounted in the exhaust system of cars. In theory it would work given a catalyzer that would strip carbon atoms from CO2 molecules, but we have nothing that could do it today. so it's a good thing we're talking about a fictional science fantasy world here.
Mind you there is no canon material to support my theory, but I can also think of no canon material that would negate such a theory, either, and it would be a workable system without too much complexity that could be able to fit into the small sapce of the pilots' respirator units we see in the films.
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I love deadlines. I like the whooshing sound they make as they fly by.
- Douglas Adams
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7/19/2006, 1:25 pm
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tpkc klick
Kuati Merchant Prince
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Registered: 12-2005
Location: Binghamton, New York
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Re: Life Support systems
quote:
DeFoe wrote:
The average human breathes a volume of 750ml air.
Air consits of 78% Nitrogen, 21% Oxygen and some other gases.
So, a normal human inhales 160 ml pure oxygen, not 250 ml as you stated.
And from this, only 25% are actually used. If it were 100%, mouth to mouth respiration would not work.
I was quoting numbers from the Wikipedia article on respiration. The smaller number of oxygen used per breath makes it even easier to store enough oxygen for an extended endurance.
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wow, flood, heat wave, tornado...holy **** Mike, time to move, don't you think? -Lucas P
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7/19/2006, 1:25 pm
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50stone
Imperial Tourist
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Re: Life Support systems
A good question would be what is the longest time we see or is referred to in the expanded universe, if we are using such references that a tie pilot is deployed.
It's stated that a Tie pilot's lifesupport is all suit mounted and from visual references there appear to be no additional hoses connecting pilot to ship, so that long can be sustained by the little do-dad on the tie pilots chest.
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7/19/2006, 1:58 pm
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Grtak
Grtak's titleless title
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Registered: 10-2005
Location: Michigan,USA
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Re: Life Support systems
There could be an engineered form of algea or whatever (plantlife) that can live with litle or no water for extended periods of time. They would consume carbon-dioxide much like normal plants do, but at an extremely high rate.
These organisms would extract the water they need from the moisture contained in your exhaled air.
I know theree is no proof, or evidence of this in the SWU, but I don't think there is any against it either.
---
"You can call me GR" -GRtak
If people read this, they would not use more than two letters when addressing me.
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7/19/2006, 2:12 pm
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