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Lucas P
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Re: AT-AT
The name of the actor who played General Veers is;
Julian Glover. according to IMDB, he is 6'2" tall (188 cm)
Void - 193cm is 6'4"
It might be an idea to get a measurement of Luke outside the ATAT and then measure the interior to determine the size of the ATAT's head...and then the rest of the body.
Then we can average between them and arrive at a more accurate figure.
regards,
Lucas
--- Only 2 things are infinite; The Universe, and human stupidity and I'm not sure about the former. - Albert Einstein
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6/28/2006, 12:00 am
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Quint89
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Re: AT-AT
So why would an internal set be better than an external set? Considering we have a pretty definate size for the actors and snowspeeder their sizes cannot be in much dispute.
I think the first step is to check as many available sources for size.
If they are all close an average can be easily reached. If they are all quite different then we'll need to think a bit more...
(we also have the window the pilots are sitting at for checking as it appears on the outside as well)
---
The Catholic and the Communist are alike in assuming that an opponent cannot be both honest and intelligent.
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6/28/2006, 5:43 am
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The VOID
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Re: AT-AT
quote:
Quint89 wrote:
So why would an internal set be better than an external set?
Because the internal set determines the minimum space. Outside shots only add the maximum scale range. SFX production techniques were not very precise those days when it came to scale, which is why there are so many problems with external references. Think of the Millenium Falcon that changes size almost constantly, when compared to other craft (on the back of the ISD bridge, docked to the Nebulon-B, landed in the Hoth Hangar,...).
Internal is always priority source, externals are additional sources and inter-vehicle-references are very unsafe and should only be used as tertiary sources.
--- "The sand people are easily startled, but they will soon be back, and in greater numbers." — Obi-Wan Kenobi
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6/28/2006, 6:22 am
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AgentToon
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Re: AT-AT
quote:
The VOID wrote:
We already know from past experience that size reference between different vehicles is often way off (think of Executor). So the snowspeeder is of no use at all.
Bad analogy. The problem is there is a big difference in the instances: The Executor never exactly physically collided with anything other than an A-Wing (seen from inside the bridge, and another contender for size issues) and the Death Star II (which is itself yet another hot contender for size issues). Thus inaccurate scaling was made off inferrence and images with no gauge of depth by people with no concept of a third dimension, whereas the AT-AT actually stepped on Luke's Snowspeeder.
However, scaling based off the Snowspeeder still means coming up with an exact and accurate size for the Snowspeeder, which we have an "official" size for, but we all know how "official" sizes go, even at Fighter/Speeder scales. *cough*A-Wing*cough* So first you'd get a margin of error on the speeder size, then a margin of error on the relative size of the walker to the speeder, then multiply those margins of error together and... Pure guess.
Also of note: Has anyone given much thought of using RotJ footage of Luke's "capture" sequence? I'm trying to remember how much we see there, but IIRC we do get Luke and a couple Stormtroopers at the minimum coming out the walker's side door.
---
I love deadlines. I like the whooshing sound they make as they fly by.
- Douglas Adams
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6/28/2006, 6:33 am
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Uncle Servo
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Re: AT-AT
quote:
The VOID wrote:
quote:
Quint89 wrote:
So why would an internal set be better than an external set?
Because the internal set determines the minimum space. Outside shots only add the maximum scale range. SFX production techniques were not very precise those days when it came to scale, which is why there are so many problems with external references. Think of the Millenium Falcon that changes size almost constantly, when compared to other craft (on the back of the ISD bridge, docked to the Nebulon-B, landed in the Hoth Hangar,...).
Internal is always priority source, externals are additional sources and inter-vehicle-references are very unsafe and should only be used as tertiary sources.
I disagree. Without a cutaway view, we have absolutely no clue how thick the walls of the head module may be. Without a full shot showing floor to ceiling, we also have no clue as to what Veers may be standing on and therefore have no concrete reference as to the height of the cabin. In truth the interior shots tell us almost nothing about the walker aside from the decor.
The only shot in the whole movie that would give us any kind of reasonably accurate size approximation is the scene where Luke is dangling beneath the walker's belly. We know Hamil's height, and we know that both he and the walker are the same distance from the camera (thus practically eliminating the problem of perspective).
Yes I know that's not REALLY Hamil dangling there, and so there is a margin of error involved there... but that's the closest we can come.
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6/28/2006, 6:38 am
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Lucas P
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Re: AT-AT
Well actually, there is a cutaway of the internals of the AT AT;
Star Wars Technical Journal pages 109-112.
As for approximating the size of the AT AT based on the Foot that crushes the Speeder, again we can't really trust that. The Foot was a prop, and likely is not accurately scaled, but proportioned. remember that the whole point of movie making is to 'cheat'.
The external shots are composites as well, but I agree that the internal set should be the primary focus, considering we know that Veers is standing and we know his height. the rest of the interior of the head should be relatively simple to determine. There is also the airlock door behind Veers which is another helpful reference.
Then we can use the exterior grappling shot with the dangling Luke to further flush out the size.
The speeder's proper scale has not yet been determined either...but can be in the same way that I was able to correctly extrapolate the A wing's size....but I guarantee you that there are discrepencies between the full sized mockup and the original miniature.
I am more inclined to go with the miniature than the full sized mockup.
regards,
Lucas
--- Only 2 things are infinite; The Universe, and human stupidity and I'm not sure about the former. - Albert Einstein
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6/28/2006, 7:08 am
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Quint89
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Re: AT-AT
No view can be dismissed until it has been analysed. Simple.
Dismissing one item because you prefer another is totally stupid.
I have no doubt that some views are less reliable than others but they need to be examined since they are cannonical evidence.
We cannot decide which is best until they have been looked at.
---
The Catholic and the Communist are alike in assuming that an opponent cannot be both honest and intelligent.
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6/28/2006, 7:21 am
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AgentToon
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Re: AT-AT
As a note on the externals: Apparently the armor skirt piece on the side protruding down from the main body of the walker is approximately the same height as Luke, but it is hard to determine as "Luke" is back-lit in the shot of him grappling up and thus really fuzzy. (Gotta love DVDs with x10 Zoom)
As a note on the internals: What I find more indicative of the size of the head is not General Veers' height but the Cold Assault Stormtrooper to whom he says "All troops will debark for ground assault," a trooper who then walks offscreen inside the walker's command module.
---
I love deadlines. I like the whooshing sound they make as they fly by.
- Douglas Adams
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6/28/2006, 7:27 am
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Lucas P
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Re: AT-AT
I agree with you in principle Quint, but we need to focus on the sources that directly relate to the craft in question. I am not really proposing to reject certain shots, but to be very cautious when deliberating their relative scales.
Does anyone want to get the high rez sceen caps of these scenes, or shall I?
--- Only 2 things are infinite; The Universe, and human stupidity and I'm not sure about the former. - Albert Einstein
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6/28/2006, 7:30 am
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AgentToon
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Re: AT-AT
I would, but I cannot do screen caps... yet.
---
I love deadlines. I like the whooshing sound they make as they fly by.
- Douglas Adams
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6/28/2006, 7:59 am
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