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Lucas P
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Location: Vancouver, Canada
Posts: 3362
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Re: Nestt Series - Regenesis/Degenesis
ouch.
Firstly Paul, I have to say that not all your comments there are accurate, and I feel that it is inappropriate for you to make many of those comments publicly. It would have been far more appropriate to contact me via pm or AIM regarding these views.
As for the technology of Star Wars, I have always felt that the technology could be made realistic and can be explained (to a degree) scientifically, to improve understanding of the material that exists for us toplay with....and that is what it is, even though I am not an RPG'er either, it is play, it's fun to reverse engineer the ships and parts.
I notice that you, Paul, mention nothing of fun in your post. Isn't that the single reason that you, or Frank, or Rob, etc entered into doing this for? It turned out that the material that has been presented for the past 30 years has been flawed and not treated with the respect it deserves, but that is par for the course when discussing fantasy or fiction...even history has been treated that way.
The Schism was not Void's fault, it was Frank's.
Frank specifically indicated that he was going to take Void's Nella and give it to another artist to refurbish, because he disagreed with Void's conclusions - and that was in the span of 4 emails. I know that you did not know that Paul, as you were not included in that email exvhange.
the fact that I was bcc'd by both Frank and Void - and oddly, only Frank's emails were editted should mean something, especially to you, as you have a history of disagreeing with Frank's methods as well.
I am not Frank. Neither is Void. I am noone's puppet. You have been a great friend over the years Paul, and I would hope that if you have a true beef with the way that things are being handled on this forum and our gallery (supplied generously by Void at no cost by the way), that you please email me directly. This type of public inflammatory statement is very inappropriate, and it is certainly inappropriate for this specific thread.
I do consider you my friend Paul, and certainly one of my best and oldest internet friends, but I do ask that some measure of decorum is taken when posting on the forums.
thank you and kind regards,
Lucas
--- Only 2 things are infinite; The Universe, and human stupidity and I'm not sure about the former. - Albert Einstein
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9/2/2006, 5:14 am
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psCargile
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Re: Nestt Series - Regenesis/Degenesis
Well, if Frank was going to have someone else refurbish VOID's design, the obvious answer is that VOID isn't good enough for the Star Wars Deckplan Alliance.
And no, I don't see Gandalf as credible. I see him as unrealistic.
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9/2/2006, 10:20 am
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krag123
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Registered: 03-2006
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Re: Nestt Series - Regenesis/Degenesis
While i do not want to get into the fight i would like to place on the table some information that was presented in the movies.
First off, in Ep VI: Return of the Jedi. While the Rebble Alliance is assaulting the second death start, they did not detect if the shields were still active or not. That indicates that they do use sensors to detect simple things (we all figured that much) but what we really learn is that the Empire has sophisticated sensor jaming equipment.
Jaming equipment like this would make a ship with out windows completly blind and unable to see where it was going. I would assime that the same kind of jaming equipment was used in Ep IV: A New Hope; Which would explain why no one was able to detect any of the other ships in the area. The problem with sensor Jaming is that it does not care if your friend or foe, its going to jam you.
The second piece of evidince i would like to put before you is Ep III: Revenge of the Sith. During the opening scen Obi-Wan and Anakin are flying though the space battle with heavy use and reliance on R2 and R4. While anakin is a good pilot in his own right, he did issue comands to R2 to help controll the ship.
Obi-Wan on the other hand, is in fact a horrible pilot (at least in the movies) and completly relies on R4's ability to operate his ship. While he may be able to steer most of the complicated evasive manuvering that was used, was done by R4. When R4 was destoyed he was preatty much out of action, unfortunatly they landed shortly after and there is no true proof of how much flying R4 was really doing.
One last thing also in Ep III, i would like to point out the scene when they were 'flying' Greviouses (sp) ship into the landing site. The Fire-barged indicated to Anikin that they were on sensors and they they would guilde him in. At the time nothing could bee seen though the ships windows as they were burnt up badly, and you could not see the ground from that vantage point.
Now this does not mean that i dont think smaller ships are flone entirely on sensors, but it does leave open the possiblity to agree with what Paul had said about complicated landing assist computers and what have you.
Just my 2 credits
---
“All hail the immortal emperor, for with out him all is lost” – Adeptus Astartes -
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9/2/2006, 10:23 am
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Lucas P
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Re: Nestt Series - Regenesis/Degenesis
well said krag123.
the technology in Star Wars definitely includes real world ideas that we can relate to, the fact that sensors can be defeated is a prime example and that would definitely be something to consider in a combat situation.
However the original question in this case was in regards to the position of the ****pit and whether or not it was useful or possible to see the ground while landing. I will submit that real world airports do have visual landmarks to indicate general altitude to assist pilots in hands on landing, without the ILS (instrument landing system).
GEnerally speaking a modern day aircraft pilot cannot see the ground when he is landing, as he is looking at his flaps, airspeed and vertical speed indicators primarily - also the nose of the plane is usually pointing about 10 to 15 degrees into the air on landing,...
Anyway, a sensor jamming issue should not actually affect the onboard landing systems of a freighter such as this as they are a closed system, probably using narrow beam laser or lydar or something for vertical rangefinding and imaging...this would not be susceptible to "jamming" unless they were traying to land on a mirror or something....in which case, I think they would have noticed prior to final approach...also all starwars ships have the ability to hover.
Docking in a space station might be different, especially if a freighter is being used as a breaching pod or assault ship tryiong to enter a hostyile environment that has detected them and is actively jamming their sensors, in which case, they might well suffer cataclysmic collision...but these are all points that are purely story derivative for the RPG'ers rather than having to go into detail on the sensor capabilities or all real world analogues in the star wars universe.
Personally, in many instances I would rather have a lightsabre work because it does, rather than to put trek like babble and double talk to explain it's function....but there are instances where it makes sense to put in things like first aid kits or fire extinguishers or architectural labelling to indicate multiple shelves etc (all Void innovations by the way).
Now, for the record, I will respectfully request that this thread remain on topic regarding the Nesst. If someone would like to discuss something else which is not related to this topic, please indicate it in the appropriate thread or open an appropriate thread.
kind regards,
Lucas
--- Only 2 things are infinite; The Universe, and human stupidity and I'm not sure about the former. - Albert Einstein
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9/2/2006, 11:07 am
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50stone
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Registered: 12-2005
Location: London, England
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Re: Nestt Series - Regenesis/Degenesis
I would also like to second Lucas's request to keep dicussions on topic.
I would add that freighters such as these and other's in their class are sold with the ability of operating from unprepared landing sites as one of their selling points.
Technically these ships would have radar altimeters and probably a multitude of other devices, similar I expect to what modern day helicopters do.
I also think that like modern day pilots, SW pilots like to depend on their own skills rather than automated systems unless they are complete novices and those rarely run transport ships.
Fully automated flight systems would be highly likely on yachts and such that are intended for lesser skilled amateur pilots.
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9/2/2006, 12:24 pm
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Quint89
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Re: Nestt Series - Regenesis/Degenesis
quote:
it makes sense to put in things like first aid kits or fire extinguishers or architectural labelling to indicate multiple shelves etc
Don't forget the potted plants... that's true 'innovation'.
I find it strange that a moderator would have started a WIP without having done the proper research. I think someone needs to re-read the "how to draw deckplans" thingy. 
---
The Catholic and the Communist are alike in assuming that an opponent cannot be both honest and intelligent.
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9/2/2006, 12:29 pm
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Lucas P
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Re: Nestt Series - Regenesis/Degenesis
or that fully automated systems are standard equipment, but that they are required to be present, but that it is up to the pilot, whether or not they are actually employed.
Bear in mind also that docking procedures also appear to be handled by the larger ships or bases through tractor beams and such...at least that's the impression I get when looking at the landing operations into the Death Star in Episodes IV and VI.
--- Only 2 things are infinite; The Universe, and human stupidity and I'm not sure about the former. - Albert Einstein
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9/2/2006, 12:30 pm
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The VOID
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Location: European Union
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Re: Nestt Series - Regenesis/Degenesis
quote:
Quint89 wrote:
quote:
it makes sense to put in things like first aid kits or fire extinguishers or architectural labelling to indicate multiple shelves etc
Don't forget the potted plants... that's true 'innovation'.
Did I claim that?
quote:
Quint89 wrote: I find it strange that a moderator would have started a WIP without having done the proper research. I think someone needs to re-read the "how to draw deckplans" thingy.
I am doing this for fun. If I am in the mood to do something, even though know I am lacking a certain book at that moment, why shouldn't I play around with it anyway? Because you wouldn't? And why should I have to re-read "how to draw deckplans"? Do I have to do it in a specific way? Because you say so? Try to scale down your arrogance to at least 50%, please.
I also don't understand, what any of that has to do with me beeing a moderator, Quint. If you think there is any relevance to that, you didn't understand what a moderator does. It has nothing to do with the way someone likes to work. It is mostly administrative duty, cleaning up and checking threads. It has nothing to do with status.
--- "The sand people are easily startled, but they will soon be back, and in greater numbers." — Obi-Wan Kenobi
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9/2/2006, 6:08 pm
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Lucas P
Emperor
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Registered: 09-2005
Location: Vancouver, Canada
Posts: 3362
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Re: Nestt Series - Regenesis/Degenesis
And that was one of the reasons why Quint was never considered as a moderator, and it was brought up, it's inflammatory and pointless comments that can really shake a person's respect level. Even Frank thought that admin or mod status were symbols of power instead of administrative peace keeping and management at it's purest form.
Who cares if someone wants to put plants in a spaceship? What more efficient way is there to make and recycle air? What does that have to do with the title they have here?
If you want to put marital aides in the captain's quarters, I couldn't care less. This whole forum and gallery are devoted to bringing out the imagination of those that visit here. We are not here to limit their imagination, but to focus on the important things, like the scale and overall design of the ships. the additional touches by the artist, destinguishes their talent and puts their name on the work.
regards,
Lucas
--- Only 2 things are infinite; The Universe, and human stupidity and I'm not sure about the former. - Albert Einstein
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9/2/2006, 6:30 pm
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The VOID
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Re: Nestt Series - Regenesis/Degenesis
Okay, now back on topic, which is the Nestt.
The ****pit issue still remains, advanced sensors and their application or not. Doesn't matter. The important thing is, that if you build a ****pit, you build it in a usefull way. A ****pit that enables you to look up, but not straight ahead is useless and if it is mounted in a position where field of view could extend to the sides as well, you will design it in a way, where that is possible. In all Star Wars sources I have seen, with only one exception (beeing the Moldy Crow), sensors are only auxilliary control systems, supporting a living pilot who uses visual as primary orientation method. Of course sensors and computers will assist in many maneuvers. They have to. It is not possible to fly or land these ships withoug a lot of machine support. It is still not the primary way it is done in Star Wars, so we should try to find a way how the ****pit could conform with that.
A thought of mine was, if the ****pit had vertical windows in the walls that we can't see from above, it could have full 180 degrees field of vision at least. Perhaps even more. There is this thing in front of the ****pit, but that could be a sensor mounted above the frontal window.
--- "The sand people are easily startled, but they will soon be back, and in greater numbers." — Obi-Wan Kenobi
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9/3/2006, 4:27 am
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