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kobe27
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So, did you like Return of the King?
So?
Did you like Shelob? (I liked her a lot, though I'll be the first to admit it's not like I'd imagined her the first time I read the books) .
Were you as outraged as I was at all the Saruman scenes that were NOT shown? (Um, I don't want to spoil anything for anyone who still hasn't seen it) .
All in all it was a great effing experience.
Now I just have to wait six months for the extended edition DVD for the REAL version.
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17/12/03, 16:38
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ntnon
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Elvish is Back
quote:
kobe27 wrote:
So?
...give it a chance to reach the cinemas..!  
quote:
kobe27 wrote:
Were you as outraged as I was at all the Saruman scenes that were NOT shown?
..Christopher Lee certainly wasn't best pleased... but Mr Jackson said that they seemed to fit better with TTT than RotK, and anyway it was already a long film, so he cut them...
quote:
kobe27 wrote:
Now I just have to wait six months for the extended edition DVD for the REAL version.
...patience is a virtue..! 
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17/12/03, 20:23
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kobe27
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Re: So, did you like Return of the King?
quote:
Swedish Nightingale wrote:
Incredible! Felt nothing like 3 1/2 hours...
And Eowyn! "But I am no man!" *SLAM*! Good stuff!!! 
Wishing Frodo would accidentally fall off a cliff the entire time? Yep.
I agree it didn't seem as long to me. The rest of the nincampoops in the theater with me, however, were already fidgeting and starting to whisper by the time Aragorn went into the mountain (which, by my calculations, was somewhere around the middle).
I assume you've already read the books, so obviously the Eowyn scene came as no surprise (I knew exactly what she was going to do), but I do agree, it totally rocked! I just wonder what I would've felt if I hadn't read the book (again, like the nincampoops in the theater with me, who kept guessing out loud how the movie was going to end)
Regarding Frodo I've felt like that about him for the better part of the past two decades. Having said that, I'm starting to give the poor sod some slack. (God knows I wouldn't have gone through so much trouble if I'D gotten that ringie) . 
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17/12/03, 22:30
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spsmith
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Re: So, did you like Return of the King?
I'll let you know after the weekend.Although I think it was disgraceful to omit the scenes with Saruman.After 2 films building him up as one of the major players,and than having no resolution to his story is just plain stupidity and a very cynical ploy to boost the DVD sales(as though they would need it any way).
The excuses Jackson uses not to include Saruman's fate in either The Two Towers or The Return of the King are just plain pathetic,why use the character at all?He certainly gone down in my estimation,and has made a complete Pratt of himself especially as he wrote a gushing foreword to Christopher Lee's latest Autobiography.Christopher Lee was rightly aggrieved and did right to boycott the various premieres.This could have been a crowning glory to his long and illustrious career.Still I'm sure in retrospect,in a long career in movies Christopher Lee is probably used to such behavior from movie Directors and Producers.
Last edited by spsmith (Local user), 18/12/03, 10:43
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18/12/03, 10:40
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Swedish Nightingale
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Re: So, did you like Return of the King?
quote:
kobe27 wrote:
I agree it didn't seem as long to me. The rest of the nincampoops in the theater with me, however, were already fidgeting and starting to whisper by the time Aragorn went into the mountain (which, by my calculations, was somewhere around the middle).
I wound up sitting on the row with the 5-year-old whose mother kept buying her drinks...  So not 10 minutes into the film: "Mommy, I gotta go!" They leave, kid comes back with a drink. 15 minutes later: "I gotta go again!"
Although apparently here last night, there was some high school kid dressed as Gandalf who led a "charge" into the theatre. That I'm sorry to have missed.
quote:
I assume you've already read the books, so obviously the Eowyn scene came as no surprise (I knew exactly what she was going to do), but I do agree, it totally rocked!
I've read them. So yeah, knew it was coming, but couldn't wait to see how they'd do it... 
quote:
I just wonder what I would've felt if I hadn't read the book (again, like the nincampoops in the theater with me, who kept guessing out loud how the movie was going to end)
The ending might have been a little confusing for those who hadn't read it... Why did everyone accept Aragorn as king? Why did Faramir and Eowyn look so happy about the whole thing? What's Aragorn really king of, anyway? But no sympathy -- they should read it. It's not that hard...!
quote:
Regarding Frodo I've felt like that about him for the better part of the past two decades. Having said that, I'm starting to give the poor sod some slack. (God knows I wouldn't have gone through so much trouble if I'D gotten that ringie) .
Sam should have taken the ring about the time they got to Bree, marched on to Mordor alone, and been done with it -- 45 minute film.
--- ~A Mina Murray Menagerie~
http://www.pagerealm.com/minamurray
Last Update: 20 Sept, 2003
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18/12/03, 13:02
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kobe27
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Re: So, did you like Return of the King?
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spsmith wrote:
I'll let you know after the weekend.Although I think it was disgraceful to omit the scenes with Saruman.After 2 films building him up as one of the major players,and than having no resolution to his story is just plain stupidity and a very cynical ploy to boost the DVD sales(as though they would need it any way).
The excuses Jackson uses not to include Saruman's fate in either The Two Towers or The Return of the King are just plain pathetic,why use the character at all?He certainly gone down in my estimation,and has made a complete Pratt of himself especially as he wrote a gushing foreword to Christopher Lee's latest Autobiography.Christopher Lee was rightly aggrieved and did right to boycott the various premieres.This could have been a crowning glory to his long and illustrious career.Still I'm sure in retrospect,in a long career in movies Christopher Lee is probably used to such behavior from movie Directors and Producers.
Agreed. On all points.
Okay, some minor SPOILERS follow, so if you haven't seen the movie, plese STOP here.
I DO see why Jackson would balk at including a Scouring of the Shire "epilogue", as it sort of breaks the building structure of the story (it's the ONLY part of the books I've never been totally comfortable with). I mean, after ALL the climactic scenes (even Sauron is dead) and we STILL have to fight Saruman?? (Not that it was much of a fight, mind you). I don't think they even shot any scenes of it, or if it was even part of the script.
However, it is patently absurd not to have included the scenes from the Voice of Saruman chapter (presumably, these are the scenes that got cut and we'll see on the DVD) . As it is, it's never explained in the movie WHY the frigging Palantir is in the wreckage outside Saruman's tower (when anyone with eyes can plainly see the tower is completely unharmed and still standing) I mean, it was Saruman's link to Sauron, after all. Why on earth would he lose it? And let's be honest, how long could a scene of Grima foolishly throwing it away have lasted?
I really don't mean to sound like one of those persons who criticize movie adaptations over simple details like "but Legolas didn't wear GREEN on THAT scene", as I really, really liked the movie, but, c'mon, I'm with Christopher Lee on this one.
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18/12/03, 13:45
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kobe27
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Re: So, did you like Return of the King?
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Swedish Nightingale wrote:
The ending might have been a little confusing for those who hadn't read it... Why did everyone accept Aragorn as king? Why did Faramir and Eowyn look so happy about the whole thing? What's Aragorn really king of, anyway? But no sympathy -- they should read it. It's not that hard...!
Yeah, I keep wondering about those poor bastards who've never read it. When the eagles came in at the end to battle the Nazgul, most people around me in the theater simply went Huh?? (I don't think they even realized it was the same eagle that'd helped Gandalf escape from Orthanc in the first movie) . I'm assuming that's why Jackson included the little butterfly at the end of the movie, to help people know he wasn't pulling the eagles out of his sleeve. Sadly, most people sitting next to me missed it.
When everyone started referring to Gandalf as Mithrandir also produced some puzzled whisperings around me, but like I've already said more than once I obviously went to the showing when they let in all the idiots.
Last edited by kobe27 (Local user), 18/12/03, 13:56
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18/12/03, 13:52
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Batfink
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Re: So, did you like Return of the King?
Well, after watching many many trailers in the foyer waiting for the queue to assemble, we notice people going in. We had got there 40 mins early and waited 20, only to find when entering the auditorium that it was two thirds full ...bugger. Still we got comfortable seats.
Now... imagine getting to the scene where Gandalf is about to take Pippin off to Minas Tirith and .....blackness, then a timid usher appears and informs everyone that there has been 'a problem' and we all have to leave the building immediately. Followed by every other screen audience in the building making about 300 people stood in the parking lot while fire engines are at stand by. 15 minutes in the freezing cold and several surges to the doors for false entries later, two fire men exit and we charge screen by screen (as long as you're close enough to hear them shout your number) into a two door entrance (okay so we pushed in through a side door after an usher let it close too slowly after him). No freakin' explanation and no apology.
Then I lost my best mate in the kerfuffle, who luckily had the foresight to return to our original seats, unlike others who took the advantage of improving on their original view. Until a Scottish gentleman suggested we be all decent citizens and return to assume our positions as that was only fair. This got a round of applause after which my mate rather cynically suggested this may be due to him finding someone in his prime positioned seat.
My mate shed a few tears, I fought them back, and we left the cinema after 3 1/2 (and a bit for the car park tour)hours just finding it hard to believe that it was all over.
Yep I was narked albeit forewarned concerning the missing Saruman scenes. Serious spoiler here but I have seen photos of Lee impaled on the central spike of a cog or wheel that can be seen in the Isengard wreckage of ROTK. So his death is not exactly 'by the book' anyway. It seemed unnecessary to omit though.
I also miss Eowyn and Farimir's love story, but the lack of feeling in my legs at the end of the film permits me to forgive. I think seeing her smile was enough. Though I wish they had made Theoden's end as tragic as it was in the book, calling out for Eowyn who unknown to him is lying within reach as he dies, a real Dr Zhivago moment. They kept the 'release the prisoners' heads which I thought was one of the most affecting and horrific scenes in the books.
Sam changed from being my least favourite, to my most favourite character. Sean Austin..... well he shined, I mean the whole 'I can't carry it but I can carry you' just broke my heart.
And then there was Aragorn turning to his men in the face of defeat with a tear in his eye and the words 'for Frodo', if that doesn't get a lump in the throat, well I hope you get a soul for Christmas.
I'm a soppy old git.
For all the amazing visuals, it was the quiet emotive moments that made it for me, although my bladder was getting a little impatient with Frodo's extremely slow delivery of his goodbyes. Sheesh man get on the frick'n boat already.
Fantastic end though, nevermind the what ifs.
---
I'll protect you from the Hooded Claw, keep the vampires from your door....
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18/12/03, 15:45
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ntnon
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Little Bits.
(...what's a 'Tirith' and why does Mina have one..?)
quote:
Batfink wrote:
For all the amazing visuals, it was the quiet emotive moments that made it for me...
Fantastic end though, nevermind the what ifs.
The battles and CGi were absolutely stunning, exactly. 
I thought that the actual visual editting work with the ending (fade to black.. fade to white.. fade to black.. end) seemed... perhaps necessary, but odd. Granted mini-subtitles saying 'Time Passes..' or something might have been a bit odd.. but... 
quote:
Swedish Nightingale wrote:
Sam should have taken the ring about the time they got to Bree, marched on to Mordor alone, and been done with it -- 45 minute film.
Quite!
There were also a couple of bits where he seemed to be stuck in 'watching-car-accident' mode, just randomly standing around not trying to do anything while Golum and Frodo... yeah. 
quote:
Batfink wrote:
...although my bladder was getting a little impatient with Frodo's extremely slow delivery of his goodbyes. Sheesh man get on the frick'n boat already.
quote:
spsmith wrote:
Although I think it was disgraceful to omit the scenes with Saruman.After 2 films building him up as one of the major players,and than having no resolution to his story is just plain stupidity and a very cynical ploy to boost the DVD sales(as though they would need it any way).
The reasons - length of TTT and then RotK - for not including Christopher Lee were absurd. There were a couple of scenes (..like I actualyl know.. I shouldn't be criticising really..  ) that I felt could have had a bit of time shaved off them if he'd have wanted to get Saruman in there even fleetingly...
The 'alternate ending'-type implied fate of Saruman was compounded by Sir Ian's line (which sounded like an afterthought.. ) where Aragorn(?) said something like 'What about Saruman?' and Gandalf replied '..oh, he.. hasn't got any power anymore. Don't worry about it..' or similar..! [..or am I mis-remembering?! ]
[Hmmm.. might it have been better if Mr Jackson had followed Mr Tarantino's lead and split it into two.. maybe? Less neat, from a 'trilogy' point of view, but more "accurate", possibly...  ]
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19/12/03, 18:07
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